12:46 PM

Decisions…decisions…decisions. So many decisions!

posted under by Pinheiro | Edit This

So in oxygen we have 2 currents the ones that like an 1 pxl outline and the ones that like something a little bit bigger.


1 pixel outline

more than 1 pixel outline


Personally I like 1 pixel outline for lighter colors and more than 1 for darker themes.

But what do you think?

46 comments

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46 comments:

Anonymous said...

I prefer the first version, i.e. the 1px one. It definitely looks sharper and cleaner. The second one looks just a wee bit off, and not as sexy.

Quintesse said...

I had a hard time figuring out what the difference between the two was so I really had to go for "which one 'feels' better?" and that would be the first one. Like the Anon poster before me it just looks sharper, less "vague".

Mefisto said...

For sure i prefer the first version, more clear than the second!

Anonymous said...

That, maybe, you should put more time in things like text alignment then pixel pushing an outline?
The text on the tabs and on the combobox are positioned quite a bit too high. For example.

Anonymous said...

First one, though the difference is slight. Had to open the images in adjacent tabs and switch between them to see it.

Anonymous said...

I prefer the second one. The elements are better to see. However this might be because I have a high resolution display (1920x1200, 17")

Dave Taylor said...

I really can't see a difference at all. I always thought I could tell acute differences but I guess not.

Anonymous said...

I clearly favor the first (1 px) version. It is way sharper and looks calmer. The second version seems rather unfocused.

maxjen said...

1px looks much better here. i only hope that's also true for dark colors because i will probably use something like this: http://bp0.blogger.com/_uykUGdiPttw/RxstlTz6EtI/AAAAAAAAAGA/Fo9GgMITTmA/s1600-h/colors3.png

berylog said...

I prefer first version!! it's very difficult to see the difference between two images, but the second one is softer than the first one, congrats for the theme!!! it's great!!!!!

DanaKil said...

1 px looks sharper IMO

Anonymous said...

I prefer the first version (1 px). The second version looks a little bit like Keramik, which was too "obtrusive" in my opinion...

Peter

Mkbart said...

1px

Anonymous said...

I agree that 1px is better.

Anonymous said...

This makes me comment on a general issue i have noticed with the Oxygen style: It lacks contrast and it somehow looks kind of fuzzy. Simply compare for instance with Apples Aqua. It's a lot sharper, clearer! I especially noticed that on my laptop (running the Beta 4 Live CD). On these kinds of displays you have usually only a small optimal viewing angle where the contrast is good and the colors look as intended. Other than that it all fades. Let alone when the sun shines... With Oxygen I sometimes have a hard time distinguishing GUI elements, for instance group boxes in config dialogs, when the angle is not optimal. Even setting contrast to maximum (in the Appearance settings) didn't help much, it just made it look worse... Maybe adding some higher contrast borders could help a lot here, while not entirely sacrifycing the overall look too much.

Having said that, in this example it would clearly be the first version, because it has higher contrast... although, not much...

Michael

Anonymous said...

I agree with the Anonymous poster @ 1:38, the text would probably look better when moved 1 pixel down (and yes, I prefer the first one).

Anonymous said...

Regarding my post about the lack of contrast... Maybe I should add that it looks a lot better on my real screen. So it's not that I have particularly bad eye sight, it's just that the displays are often crap. But that should be taken into account ;)

Michael

Anonymous said...

I personally like the first one better. (but why don't make it customizable?)

Louis said...

Another vote for the 1px version. It looks more clear and sharp to my eyes. Thanks.

Anonymous said...

One more vote for 1px.

dwbell said...

It took me and my 6 year old 5 minutes to find the difference, and then it was a split decision.

Robin said...

I also like the first one more.

Anonymous said...

I would prefer the thinner line. In the end, this make s the style look slightly 'lighter', which in the end makes it more 'durable' for my eyes. I don't get the impression that it does contrast any bad.

The 'extra space' that this produces is nice for a small border around icons, so they look less easily stuffed against the edges.

-- sebas

diego said...

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diego said...

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diego said...

i prefer the first 1px version, is a lot sharper and better to the eyes

Anonymous said...

KDE 4 should deffinetly have a unique interface, something that distinguishes it as a "brand".

OS X has the aqua style; Vista has the rounded&transparent window corners and the cool buttons in the top-right-corner.

KDE 4 must come up with something sexy!

Anonymous said...

i believe 1px should be default, but i also think that the user should be able to change colors if he wish

Anonymous said...

for the anonymous above:

KDE 4 will have Oxygen.

tecnocratus said...

Wow, I could hardly spot the difference on my 4-year old laptop panel, but I guess you mean the white outline around buttons and other clickables.

I'm also for the 1px version. The other one looks a bit "fluffy" to my eyes.

Unfortunately, the actual code doesn't look nearly as slick -though it's slowly getting there-. The style in Beta 4 looks like a bunch of distressing patches of white flashing at your eyes.


Well then, let's hope Oxygen will step up to the challenge and deliver some unique graphics :)

tecnocratus said...

A bit off-topic, but I found something very irritating with the style as it looks in Beta 4. (If this is not the right place to post my whims, please, advise as to where I should be doing it).

The thing is, I was *totally* unable to make out the window outlines when stacked on top of other windows. For instance, when attempting to move a dialog around, I would find myself dragging the larger window immediately below. I just *could not see* the dialog!

Agreed, the shadows and bling effects give windows some depth and makes the task easier, but we cannot rely on bling for such elementary visual hints as telling where windows end. Also, I presume shadows, background window darkening, etc., won't be available on lower-end hardware (such as my very dear 4 year-old Thinkpad).

That's not to mention visually impaired people. Aren't we paying attention to usability laws in that regard? (hint: it is a requirement for Government acceptance here, in Spain).

So, folks, bear with me: WE NEED MORE CONTRAST!

I want to believe. I know you are listening.

logixoul said...

to all of you asking to stop the mockups and work on the code, well guess what, the pics in this post are *screenshots* :/

the difference between them was a single numeric constant.

I just committed the thinner version as most of you, plus me and pinheiro, chose.

may eventually be configurable but first we'll see if we can make a really good default that everyone likes...

the contrast thing is a simple matter of choosing a darker default background color, which in KDE4 is as easy as it was in KDE3's kcontrol. pinheiro will do this eventually, he's doing a shitload of icon work in the meantime that none of you are seeing cause it only happens in SVN.

oh and anyone for whom the Oxygen of today is not looking unique enough, post mockups or quit whining

nathanael said...

I don't think YOU should decide (or we, as it is).
I would prefer having both and being able to configure it in the configuration dialog.

nathanael

tecnocratus said...

@logixoul

I knew you were listening ;).


to all of you asking to stop the mockups and work on the code, well guess what, the pics in this post are *screenshots* :/


Well, I take your word for that. Gotta try the freshest SVN code, but either way, I'm a bit concerned that if rendering differences are so striking accross different video cards/displays/drivers/whatever, we might have missed something important at the base of the Oxygen design.

I'll try to post a screenshot later. I hope you'll be able to see the difference with your own eyes.


the contrast thing is a simple matter of choosing a darker default background color


I'm not talking about widget vs. window background contrast here, but foreground windows vs. background window contrast. I don't know if that can be changed in the pref's pane -I haven't played much with the newest beta-, and I know that poor overworked Nuno will get to making it the default, eventually. I just wonder whether we might be a bit lost in the forest, as we are discussing the "1px" vs. "2px" thing when there are such clearly outstanding usability issues.


oh and anyone for whom the Oxygen of today is not looking unique enough, post mockups or quit whining


Amen to that, man!

Please, don't take my comments as put-downs - They aren't. I'm most impressed with the work that you guys are doing and by all means encourage you to carry on that direction. I wish I had better coding skills, or that I had some spare time to work on a couple of mockups to share with you, but hey, moaning is the easyest!

rememberme said...

I have the latest svn up and running and I have to say oxygen is gorgeous.

And I was impressed of the new colour configuration, finally changing the contrast makes a difference.
Also like the new colour schemes in svn. (especially BeOS, but the other are interesting as well).

The default colour scheme with the green and orange highlights is beautiful!

@ tecnocratus

Some time ago there was something that changed the colour of the whole inactive window and its content.

It was not very pretty and was removed.
But I think it is worked on. (I see a configure dialog already in the colour config, but it does nothing)

Ricardo Ramalho said...

The first one,

Ou melhor... a primeira, é mais limpa.

É sempre bom ver um português a fazer coisas realmente giras. Parabéns! ;)

Anonymous said...

I like the first one too, it looks much more clean and professional.

Feng Shaun said...

I like the 1 pixel outline. It's cleaner and more consistent

livingdots said...

tecnocratus: "I'm not talking about widget vs. window background contrast here, but foreground windows vs. background window contrast."

I have to agree. When I look at some screenshots, it is very difficult to tell windows apart, when stacked or overlapping each other. The numerous complaints about "lack of contrast" are probably mostly complaints regarding difficulty to distinguish foreground vs. background windows. This should be addressed.

BTW, the 1 px outline looks better to me... and I think you guys are doing a great job!

Matalo said...

1px

Stephen said...

I am loving the work being done on KDE 4, and the oxygen style.

I feel that it is one of the best things to happen to linux in a long time. The reason why i switched from kde to gnome was because KDE just didn't look as good, but that is changing quickly, and i am looking forward to KDE 4 when it is released.

The icons are beautiful, they are much nicer than the crystal icons (and more professional). So far i have tried Beta 3 and Beta 4, and as soon as i can i will be trying the next release, and i will hopefully be switching from gnome to KDE 4 when it is released.

I've been following KDE 4 almost since the beginning when I first read about it...all of my friends are getting tired of me blabbing about it.


Good work guys! Innovation for the win.

James said...

Well, I have looked at it in Gimp and they both have 1 pixel but one is darker and one is lighter.

My Blog said...

tecnocratus: "I'm not talking about widget vs. window background contrast here, but foreground windows vs. background window contrast."

Is the same for me, I was trying kde4 beta4 the other day and it looks amazing, but when I have two windows overlapping is realley hard to tell where one ends and the other starts.

About the post, I prefer the first version, althoug both look beatiful.

Hoping for oxygen said...

I was wondering if the tabs will look like this.. I was SOOOO very beautiful in the first version of Oxygen (With Colorful "background", like in "Option 1" in the Nuno's preview) That was one of the aspects that really showed me somenthing completely new and awesome! Please, please artists of KDE, consider bringing it back!!

Gunjan said...

The first one looks better everywhere except under the tabs (the one's currently not open). a dark line appears there, its much softer there in second case.
Everywhere else 1px is great. I love the crisp feel. It makes me feel its sharp, light and less bulky

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